Handbags, Words That Matter and the Body Positivity Question

Penny: 00:00:27

Okay, let's get into our quick fire round. So I'm gonna come in hard and fast. Estimate there. What is the most random thing in your handbag right now?

Esther: 00:00:37

A battery. And I'll tell you for. And I know it's there. The trauma I have had with it. So who'd have known?

My car fob stopped working, which meant I couldn't get in the car. It's totally immobilized. I couldn't turn off the alarm, so I had to go out and get a battery.

I can't tell you how horrific was finding that battery at midnight at the Tesco in Hanforth, which shuts at midnight. Had every battery there, but there's one battery. So I had to go out first thing this morning.

Penny: 00:01:04

A nightmare. Julie, what's in your handbag?

Julie: 00:01:07

A screwdriver. You never know when you're gonna need one. Right.

Penny: 00:01:10

This is true.

Julie: 00:01:11

And it's been in there for quite a long time. I think I've become quite attached to it now I can't because I might need it one day. I don't even know why it's there.

Penny: 00:01:18

You might need it. It might be a matter of life or death.

Esther: 00:01:21

Yeah, well, you see, you better remember it's there. Cause I know somebody coming to the House of Commons one time and they forgot that in their handbag was a screwdriver and they were not allowed in.

Carted off the screwdriver. Tweaking out of the hammer. Exactly Right. So you might need to remember.

Julie: 00:01:37

I'll remember that. Thank you for. That's it. I shall be rem. Removing that screwdriver. And if I ever need one on my travels, we know, I'll just borrow your battery.

Penny: 00:01:46

Just borrow the battery. Well, a very. I was gonna say very industrial, very industrious items from you two. For me, I've got a pair of knickers and they are clean.

So I just want to caveat that I was going for an appointment a couple of weeks ago and I thought, I'll just sling a pair in just in case I need them. We don't need to go into any of it. And I've been carrying them around now for two weeks.

Julie: 00:02:12

Okay. Interesting question, Esther. If she'd have turned up in the House of Commons with a pair of knickers in her bag, would that have been an issue?

Esther: 00:02:18

Absolutely not. Okay.

Julie: 00:02:20

Good to know that.

Esther: 00:02:22

Knickers. Fine knickers to you.

Unless you were going to take them out and start waving them at PMQs whenever the Prime Minister was speaking, maybe could come In. But I have to say, if somebody was to say to you these three things, knickers, screwdriver, and battery, can you say what connects them?

You probably couldn't.

Julie: 00:02:41

Absolutely. No. No. Actually can't think of anything that connects those things. Well, not anything that we can talk about on air anyway.

Esther: 00:02:47

Exactly. Our handbags.

Penny: 00:02:49

Well, what. What an amazing array of items there. Okay, next one. This is tricky. If you could only eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be? Julie?

Julie: 00:03:04

I'm going to go with fajitas.

Penny: 00:03:06

Oh, okay. Why is that?

Julie: 00:03:08

Because I really love them. Love Mexican food.

Penny: 00:03:10

I do.

Julie: 00:03:11

I love all food, really. So narrowing it down. But the issue is I might get a bit fa. Heated out.

Penny: 00:03:16

You might get fa. Heated out.

Julie: 00:03:18

But I really do like them.

Penny: 00:03:19

Okay, we'll take that one.

Julie: 00:03:21

Yeah, we'll go fajitas.

Penny: 00:03:22

We'll take that. Esther McPhee, what would you eat for the rest of your life?

Esther: 00:03:26

Well, I'm thinking, right, and I hope this isn't cheating here. I'm thinking of a full English breakfast. Thinking absolutely everything. I've got beans.

I've got tomatoes, sausage, mushrooms, you know, bacon, egg, everything, right? But I dip in and out every day, so I don't have the issue of for the rest. So some days I might just have tomatoes on toast.

Other times beans on toast, then egg and bacon. See what I mean? See what I'm doing? I can mix them, but it would be a full monty, full English, and then just ditch what I don't want.

Penny: 00:03:53

I feel that's cheating, but I feel like. Julie, you could deconstruct me.

Julie: 00:03:58

I was just gonna use that word, deconstruct my fajitas. I'm having peppers today, guys.

Esther: 00:04:02

With avocado. Love avocado. I might have to have av part of on my full English because people do that now.

Penny: 00:04:09

Oh, they do, actually. And then they just say it's Mexican breakfast.

Julie: 00:04:12

Guacamole.

Penny: 00:04:13

Oh, I like a bit of guac.

Julie: 00:04:14

Salsa. Yeah, I'm with you. Right. I'm doing that.

Penny: 00:04:17

Oh, okay. I mean, I was gonna go for something different, but I might get on board with this salmon and noodles. But my noodles has got peppers.

It's got an egg in it.

Esther: 00:04:25

It's got bit of bok choy.

Penny: 00:04:27

Bok choy. I love a bit of bok choy. A bit of tender stem. I see the issue here. We've all cheated, haven't we?

Julie: 00:04:35

Yeah, we don't want to be stuck tuggery for the rest of our days.

Esther: 00:04:37

We didn't Say one food, though, because that would be difficult, you know, if you had to choose tomatoes or strawberries. I'd probably go for cinnamon.

Julie: 00:04:46

Just thinking about that.

Penny: 00:04:47

Oh, strawberries. If you thought it was something like that, though. Yeah, that.

Julie: 00:04:50

What about wine? Oh, is that acceptable?

Penny: 00:04:52

Grapes.

Julie: 00:04:53

Grapes, Right.

Penny: 00:04:53

Fruit to all the people. Right, okay. In the news recently, Emmanuel. Emmanuel. Emmanuel. Emmanuel Mackerel. I'll just call him Mackerel. Yeah. Macron.

Macron was on a state visit and I noticed something. Esther, Julie, There was a change in the narrative. There was a change of language.

We heard the use of irregular migration as opposed to what it is, which is illegal migration. And I think it got us all thinking about language and why we should use the correct language. Esther, this one straight over to you.

Because of your political background.

Esther: 00:05:37

Well, language is very important, and when you use it incorrectly, it has a different meaning. So if you say, given that example, irregular rather than illegal, what are you doing there? You're reframing. I call it the narrative.

You're changing the truth. And what does. Illegal has? Criminality. It has an emphasis on, as I said, criminality. The need to do something, you know, to change it to a regular.

That takes away that it doesn't sound as important, it doesn't have a sense of urgency. And that's why using the correct language is important. And whilst that's a good example, we've got lots of change of language.

People feel uncomfortable. Another instance maybe frightened to use the real words.

Penny: 00:06:29

Yeah.

Esther: 00:06:30

And I think that shying away from it can be stemmed from all kinds of things, can't it?

Julie: 00:06:35

Yeah, 100%.

Penny: 00:06:36

Yeah. I mean, I think like. Like you say, we.

We talked about it earlier, actually, and use the term like cushioning, like cushioning of the language, and it diffuses. And. And like I said, sometimes that can be some. That can be a useful tool, but I don't think it's very useful for. For issues like migration.

I think another one that we. We came to was another political, if you like, it's become a political issue is the rape gangs.

For a long time, the narrative on that was grooming gangs.

And it's the comedian Leo Curse, who said he just had this image of lots of Chinese and Japanese people with hair brushes and hair dryers in their hands running around after people. And that's a really good example of how completely, you know, changing the language softens it. And it's not right, is it?

Esther: 00:07:28

Well, I wouldn't have that. I mean, grooming. We all think of grooming online. I mean, that is the sort of the precursor to the rape.

So what you're doing is dropping people's sort of fears or barriers to you. Cause you're grooming them. A friend, a lover, I don't know, somebody you were gonna have an intimate relationship in. So they used it grooming.

Where actually what we discovered is they'd all been raped.

They'd all been horrifically, seriously raped and said, we don't want you using the word grooming gang anymore, because we want these people to be sentenced and tried and found for what they did. So it was rape gangs. So that is. Right. So that is.

The language was wrong, which has upset people and that's actually why it's now being called rape gangs rather than grooming gangs.

Julie: 00:08:10

But is there a fear that people are frightened to say the real words for fear of being classed as. Whether it's racist or whatever, and they change it to suit to suit. So if you look at the word irregular, what does irregular mean? Irregular.

Penny: 00:08:28

Anything.

Julie: 00:08:28

It's not consistent.

Penny: 00:08:29

Yes. Yeah.

Esther: 00:08:30

Well, not normal or something.

Julie: 00:08:32

Yeah, exactly.

Esther: 00:08:33

And then people will say, well, it is regular. They're coming over every day regularly and there's a lot of them. So irregular was the wrong word in everything.

Penny: 00:08:40

It was 30 o' clock by the.

Esther: 00:08:41

Time, but it was legal. And they're wanting the public maybe not to be so angry about the illegality. People breaking into your country. Oh, no, it's irregular.

Penny: 00:08:50

It's.

Esther: 00:08:51

They're not breaking into your country. So that's what they were doing, reframing a narrative, you know, which is wrong. But, you know, there's other things that we might not use.

I would say the correct language, you know, it's a bit like ooh down there. If you're women. Ooh down there.

Penny: 00:09:05

Yeah.

Julie: 00:09:06

Again, that probably came from our parents, the generation where there was a fear of saying the real words, like vagina.

Penny: 00:09:14

Yes.

Julie: 00:09:14

We probably all still do it for that.

Penny: 00:09:16

Yes.

Julie: 00:09:17

Shock horror. But I remember my mum, Manana, she'd name it things Foo Foo Floof and.

Penny: 00:09:24

Foof and the Daisy. Daisy, was that one. Or flower.

Julie: 00:09:29

Yeah, flower.

Penny: 00:09:29

Really crazy names, actually. And whilst when children are younger, you know, maybe that's more being uncomfortable.

Now, as the daughter of a midwife, I had all the correct words used every day from being very, very young.

And I'm grateful, actually, for that because, again, there is some data around these days with cancer and women going to gynaecologists and doctors and not being able to pinpoint their own anatomy to say what is wrong with them. So I Think I understand very much where that comes from, but we're not helping ourselves. Why should we be ashamed of the name of a body?

Julie: 00:10:09

Don't remember those sex education classes back at school? It was like you said the word penis and we'd all go, oh, God.

Penny: 00:10:16

I remember a banana and a condom. I mean, that was confusing growing up.

Julie: 00:10:20

Well, it was. Where's the fruit bowl gone? Benny?

Penny: 00:10:24

Yes. Let's take our relationship to the next level. Strawberry or banana? What?

Esther: 00:10:30

But I think as well, because we never use the word vagina. I always think, oh, it's an ugly word or an unusual word or a strange, strange name. And is it really or is it because we never used it?

Penny: 00:10:43

Yes. And another really common thing with the word vagina. Let's keep saying vagina.

Esther: 00:10:49

Yeah, I was gonna say you're softening your tongue.

Penny: 00:10:51

No, it's V. Vagina is. A lot of women say vagina when actually they mean vulva as well.

Julie: 00:10:59

Oh, okay. So they don't actually understand the whole and write words for the anatomy.

Penny: 00:11:04

Yeah, so you know, vagina, it's an internal part. It's not the external.

Esther: 00:11:08

There are three women here, but thank goodness we've got Penny with us to.

Julie: 00:11:11

Tell us where you learn something new every day.

Penny: 00:11:14

This is not only entertainment, but it is education.

Julie: 00:11:17

Totally education. We need something. Something visual. Here, you can point to it with your little stick.

Esther: 00:11:24

I'll give you another one as well. My grandma used to say if somebody was sort of rather large. Heavy boned.

Penny: 00:11:29

Heavy bone. Now, you don't hear that these days, do you?

Julie: 00:11:33

No, you don't. Oh, you're looking well.

Penny: 00:11:36

You're looking well.

Julie: 00:11:37

You know you're looking well meant that you've probably put a bit of weight on.

Penny: 00:11:40

And she likes her food. She likes her food.

Esther: 00:11:43

More of her to love.

Penny: 00:11:47

Now, where I'm from, if you were Bonnie. Yeah, yeah, Bonnie Lassa. You know, it's like. It's a lovely word, isn't it? But if you're Bonnie, it means you're well covered. But.

But really well covered.

Julie: 00:12:00

There's another one.

Penny: 00:12:02

The list is child bearing hips. Well, you. You know, you won't have any trouble having children.

Julie: 00:12:08

Yeah, I've heard what you're actually trying.

Penny: 00:12:10

To say that before.

Esther: 00:12:12

And you know, your granddad said the wrong thing when he says chunky.

Penny: 00:12:15

Oh, you've got granddad chunky. But, you know, the body positivity movement has disappeared with the evolution of the skinny jabs.

So this has become a really interesting thing to watch. Everyone's like, go, Lizzo, and you know, all of these women that were body positive ladies for bigger ladies. Yeah.

Esther: 00:12:44

And the dove advert came in very much on all ladies love every shape. And actually that sort of, in a way been proved to be a myth. Now everybody wants to be super skinny.

Well, it seems that way because everybody seems to be on fat jabs.

Penny: 00:12:58

Absolutely. And there is a topic for us to cover. Definitely. Yeah. Because the people who had claimed to be happy with their weight and great.

Julie: 00:13:07

They'Ve been advocates for the bigger ladies. Right. And they looked amazing and they were happy and now they've all disappeared and.

Esther: 00:13:14

Actually now they're a size 8.

Penny: 00:13:16

Now they're a size 8. The joke on South Park.

So if anybody does watch south park, and I do guilty pleasure there on there, the end of obesity episode that they did, which was about the slimming jabs, was all the mothers were using them, but not. Not saying they were using them, they go, you've lost weight. And everyone goes, yeah, Pilates and hiking. So that's how good.

If my Phil sees anyone who's lost a lot of weight, he goes, Pilates and hiking.

Julie: 00:13:43

That is so true, though. Just diet and exercise. I've known you 20, 20 years, you didn't work. But anyway, I'm good for you. Who cares actually how you're losing your weight?

If it feels right for you, then do that.

Esther: 00:13:57

But again, that goes back to fearful of saying the truth in one way or another for a different reason. Because you probably think, oh, I wish I had the willpower. I don't. You know, it's a faster way of doing it.

So I guess we all do it in one way or another. And for a while, I know the popular word was cancelled. If you said something people didn't like, you could now be canceled.

It wasn't to be said in polite society. So when I grew up, you wouldn't talk about your money, your wages, your religion or politics. So it's never really gone.

Maybe it's just morphed into different areas.

Julie: 00:14:31

That's interesting.

Penny: 00:14:33

Yeah, that is interesting.

Just another thing on that, that made me laugh when you were speaking then, Esther, on that episode of south park in America, it's a thousand pounds a month for the job.

Julie: 00:14:44

It is.

Penny: 00:14:44

So it's very expensive.

So they'd have a, you know, the, the scene was they're at the doctors and they were like, well, I think you should go on as whichever one others are available. And he'd go, well, I haven't got the money. And go, oh, I'll write You a prescription of Lizzo. And that's what they got. They had to listen to Lizzo.

Now, Lizzo is thin because she's obviously lost a huge amount of weight. So the body positivity prescription, because you just had to get over being fat. That was basically what they were saying. You couldn't afford the job.

Julie: 00:15:14

Just get over it.

Penny: 00:15:15

You'd have to. Yeah, listen to Lizzo. The only. The side effect of being on a prescription of Lizzo was that your ears would start to get diarrhea. That's not me.

Go out, guys. That is the south park episode.

Julie: 00:15:26

I need to watch this south park then.

Penny: 00:15:27

Oh, it's hilarious. The end of obesity. It's on Paramount, I think. Really good.

Julie: 00:15:31

Well, there's a subject for another day. Obesity, abs.

Penny: 00:15:34

Oh, absolutely.

Julie: 00:15:35

Implications and all of that. And are the skinny jabs actually just working to make you lose weight, to make you feel good about.

Because you look thin, but really, are they for health benefits?

Esther: 00:15:47

Well, you see, I. I'm a little bit more cynical of the whole pharmaceutical industry and the fact that we're medicalizing everything and actually we shouldn't be because I don't think there's anything that you can, you know, you can't get rich quick. You can't do anything quick. There isn't a shortcut to things. And, you know, there will be some people. Yes. Who will need it.

Who've got medical conditions. Yes. But not the number who are doing it now. So I'm thinking of pharmaceutical industry who must be rubbing their hands on the.

Julie: 00:16:18

Amount because apparently it's been around for a long time. I don't know all the history. It's been around a long time, but somebody's making a lot of money.

Penny: 00:16:24

Well, I have got a confession to make because about.

Julie: 00:16:27

You've been on the jab.

Penny: 00:16:29

Well, not currently.

Esther: 00:16:30

It's not working. It's not working.

Penny: 00:16:32

I was gonna say I want my money back if it is.

When it first came out about probably getting on for two and a half, three years ago, our nurse that we worked with said he wants to try the skinny jar because. And we were on us. Yeah. So we all tried it for two. I think it was two months, three months or something at cost price because it was so new.

And there was other ones around and these were the new ones. And we all had very different experiences on it. You did lose weight, there was no question about it.

But you couldn't eat, and you couldn't eat very much. And the nurse wanted us to do it, to observe what we did. And I came off at anywhere for two months because I was just eating crisps and toast.

Julie: 00:17:14

The important thing is you should still eat.

Penny: 00:17:17

I couldn't eat a full meal so nutritionally I didn't feel like it was very good for me. One of the other girls carried on for four months and lost a lot of weight and then they came into the mainstream and they couldn't get them.

Esther: 00:17:30

Anymore because remember, you should be taking everything, minerals, vitamins, amino acids. You are absolutely depleting your body and you will be ill.

I mean despite what the long term side effects are, just day to day, your body needs nourishment. It needs, you know, vitamins and stuff.

Penny: 00:17:49

It doesn't. And that, that was what I observed and reported back that I wasn't eat. I didn't feel you weren't eating the right things. Yeah.

Julie: 00:17:57

They meant back in your body.

Penny: 00:17:58

Couldn't eat a full meal. Didn't want my strawberries that I eat. You know, I just didn't want to eat properly and I don't think that's very good for you. So.

So interestingly so. Yeah, we'll dive into that.

Julie: 00:18:09

I think so.

Penny: 00:18:10

I think it's a really, it's a good. Would you rather fight one horse sized duck? So this is a giant duck just to get our brains in gear or a hundred duck sized horses? Esther?

Esther: 00:18:29

I think I'd go for the one horse sized duck because I'm thinking I'd at least know where it was coming from. I know it would be huge and it'd be difficult. I might be able to hide.

But if you've got a hundred things coming after you from every direction that is so difficult to either fight or fend off, isn't it? Because it'd be surrounding jumping from all, you know, everywhere. 300.

Penny: 00:18:51

They're small and they've got hooves. They've got little hooves.

Julie: 00:18:55

They've got little hooves. Other ones got huge hooves.

Penny: 00:18:59

Well, no, it's a big duck.

Esther: 00:19:00

It's got a big beak. It's a big beak.

Julie: 00:19:02

That one.

Penny: 00:19:02

It's fluffy.

Julie: 00:19:03

Oh God.

Esther: 00:19:04

It's a big beak and big wings. I mean, you know, I mean it's going to be a tough, it's going.

Julie: 00:19:08

To be a tightless stalk.

Penny: 00:19:09

It's got a big mouth. It could get in its beak.

Esther: 00:19:14

But like I said, you could hide because you'd know where it was coming from. I'm thinking dinosaur versus lots of little sort of, I don't know, like vicious dogs or something.

I mean it's, I think we're gonna tell you what, whoever, whichever one you go for, you're finished. I mean, it's over, isn't it?

Julie: 00:19:31

I think we'd have a nightmare tonight.

Penny: 00:19:33

Now, it's pretty horrific that, actually, isn't it?

Julie: 00:19:35

Sort of it, yeah.

Penny: 00:19:36

Because I'm thinking duck, big fluffy feathers. You know, I think of the big beak coming at me. It's big like a horror film.

Esther: 00:19:46

It's a bit like Sesame Streets.

Penny: 00:19:49

Big birds. Oh, we're all gonna have Sesame Streets.

Julie: 00:19:53

I'm not having 100. Yeah, you see 100 duck sized horses.

Penny: 00:19:57

Hooves. Hooves. They're sharp, aren't they? Hooves that they do damage.

Julie: 00:20:03

They do damage, yeah.

Esther: 00:20:04

And they can bite those horses.

Julie: 00:20:08

No horse size, but a horse sized duck might be able to nip you.

Penny: 00:20:14

Definitely.

Esther: 00:20:15

Definitely that beak.

Penny: 00:20:18

So again, I mean, it was a pretty horrific one, but I think, I think Esther and I are definitely with the big duck.

Julie: 00:20:25

I think I'm verging on the big duck now.

Penny: 00:20:26

Yeah.

Julie: 00:20:27

Thinking of all those who's. That's a lot of hoops.

Penny: 00:20:30

Can you, can you run in zigzags like with alligators? Or would that not work?

Julie: 00:20:33

Is that a myth? Is that a real thing?

Penny: 00:20:35

I don't think that would work.

Julie: 00:20:37

I'm not trying it.

Penny: 00:20:38

Oh, it can fly. Ducks can fly.

Julie: 00:20:40

They can. That's why I said, is it a flightless dog or is it a dog that's gonna fly at you as well and pluck you because it's big enough?

Penny: 00:20:47

Pluck you out.

Esther: 00:20:49

We're finished. Like I say, we're finished. Whichever widget we're either.

Julie: 00:20:53

Whichever one we do, we're in a nightmare.

Penny: 00:20:56

Okay. Thank you, ladies. Sam.