Pudding, Prison and the Emoji You Overuse
Welcome back to Sweet Blondes – Julie is cheeky, Esther is proper, Penny is disobedient… guess what happens next.
This time our conversation takes us from the emojis that say more than words to fiery debates about law and order with a few surprising choices when it comes to art. It is funny, a little unexpected and exactly the kind of light relief you need in the middle of the week.
If the headlines are getting heavy let us lift the mood. You will laugh, you will shout your own answers at the speaker and by the end you will feel like you have pulled up a chair at our table.
So grab a brew, press play and join in – we want to know which emoji you cannot live without.
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Transcript
Okay, as usual, we are going to start with our quick fire round.
Speaker A:Are you ready?
Speaker A:We'll start with Julie.
Speaker B:Fingers on the butter.
Speaker A:On the buzzer, Julie, starter or dessert?
Speaker C:Oh, definitely starter.
Speaker A:Esther.
Speaker B:It's always been a dessert, but I don't know if it's hormones.
Speaker B:Hormones.
Speaker B:Menopausal.
Speaker B:I am now starter rather than pudding.
Speaker B:I was always pudding.
Speaker B:But not now.
Speaker A:I was always starter, now I'm dessert.
Speaker B:We could go out together and get a three course meal.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's brilliant.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Okay, Esther, Instagram or TikTok?
Speaker B:I'd say Instagram because I'm new to TikTok, but Instagram's hard work, isn't it?
Speaker B:And if you're not sort of gorgeous with gorgeous pictures, then it's, you know, nobody wants a political story.
Speaker B:No, no, trust me, the political story sort of hangs there.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:You've got to be gorgeous.
Speaker A:You'll have to find a way to jot it up a bit.
Speaker A:Julie, now, I know you're quite into your TikTok.
Speaker C:I'm into my TikTok.
Speaker C:It's got to be tick tock for me.
Speaker C:Well, away many an hour scrolling TikTok.
Speaker C:What about you, Penny?
Speaker C:What are you.
Speaker A:So I feel safer on Instagram.
Speaker A:I feel like I know what I'm doing.
Speaker A:But I love it with Esther.
Speaker A:It's hard work.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Get onto the TikTok.
Speaker B:We're going to follow you, Julie.
Speaker B:It's more raw.
Speaker C:That's what it is.
Speaker C:It's raw.
Speaker A:Do you know what I feel about TikTok?
Speaker B:Is that what it is?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I feel like TikTok is what Instagram used to be when it started, so it shows it to more people, whereas Instagram just wants you to pay.
Speaker C:And it's more aesthetically pleasing, isn't it, Instagram?
Speaker C:Beautiful pictures, beautiful people.
Speaker B:We're gonna have to have a lesson with Julie on.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think we need to set up our own TikTok.
Speaker C:That's what we need to do.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Julie, what's your most used emoji?
Speaker A:You're allowed to.
Speaker C:I'm allowed to.
Speaker C:Great.
Speaker C:Because I've got the laughing emoji.
Speaker C:That's probably my most used one.
Speaker C:I have laughing faces, just different ones.
Speaker C:But my favourite one is the rolling on the four laughing face.
Speaker C:You know the one tilty face.
Speaker C:And can I say the word?
Speaker C:Crap.
Speaker C:Poo.
Speaker A:Poo.
Speaker C:The poo emoji comes in really handy.
Speaker A:It's cute.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, it's cute and it's very good for different Situations.
Speaker A:Yes, it's versatile.
Speaker C:Versatile.
Speaker C:Yes, it is.
Speaker C:Those are my favourite.
Speaker A:Esther.
Speaker B:Thumbs up.
Speaker B:Definitely thumbs up.
Speaker C:I hate functional.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It's functional.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:It's thumbs up and then you're right.
Speaker B:Laughy smiley face.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:Or occasionally the, you know, the eye sort of eye roll.
Speaker C:Yes, the eye roll is a good one.
Speaker B:Or a shock look.
Speaker B:In fact, I can go through them.
Speaker B:But definitely thumbs up.
Speaker B:You both did that perfectly on cue.
Speaker B:The shock face.
Speaker B:If I could describe it now, that really was the emoji shock face.
Speaker B:Look, the pair of you did.
Speaker A:Now I've got to say I want to because I punctuate with the purple heart.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:Just always my thing.
Speaker A:I end things with it.
Speaker A:Instead of kisses, sometimes I use the little purple heart.
Speaker A:I don't know why, I just love it.
Speaker A:So my other one is, you know the face that's like.
Speaker A:Like the crazy.
Speaker C:Oh, the crazy face with the wonky.
Speaker A:Eye, like where you've forgotten something or you've.
Speaker C:I've had too much champagne.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I use that one quite a lot.
Speaker A:But I give.
Speaker A:I use the laugh one a lot as well.
Speaker C:I think that's nice.
Speaker C:If you use the laughing one.
Speaker B:Actually the glass of red wine one.
Speaker C:Comes out quite a bit, doesn't it?
Speaker C:Ye.
Speaker C:We got a top 10 hits of emojis.
Speaker A:Should we get the people who did the adolescents emojis to analyze ours?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Shall we?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Our top 10 most used emojis.
Speaker C:Send them off to be analyzed, see what comes back.
Speaker A:There's quite a few that I use day to day with my husband.
Speaker C:We're in the adolescence aubergine.
Speaker A:The aubergine.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:We use the skull one quite a lot.
Speaker C:Do you?
Speaker A:Yeah, like as a joke for if you get something wrong or you know, something like that.
Speaker B:Oh, the very angry one as well is quite a good one.
Speaker B:The very angry zip lips.
Speaker C:The swearing with the zippy zip.
Speaker C:Isn't it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think we can just say that we like a lot of emojis.
Speaker B:It's just a quick reply, isn't it?
Speaker B:If you know somebody really well, the thumbs up is like, oh, well, I may.
Speaker B:Seeing you later.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Should I do this?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It's just a simple reply, isn't is?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I add them on most of my messages to you.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Like again, a form of punctuation to.
Speaker C:Make it light hearted or I'm angry Redford.
Speaker C:You know, the red face or you know, to sort of say how you're feeling.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What I. I don't like Is when you think, are they really.
Speaker B:Do they really mean that or is this a kind of.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think, sort of pressurized, pressurizing you.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's interesting.
Speaker C:Could we have a conversation just with emojis?
Speaker A:Yeah, easily.
Speaker A:It would be great.
Speaker A:I'd save a lot of time.
Speaker C:Instead of saying, how are you?
Speaker C:How are you feeling today?
Speaker C:Send an emoji just like, what are you doing today?
Speaker C:Standing.
Speaker A:Imagine that's when my little crazy face comes in handy.
Speaker C:Is it like.
Speaker A:Yeah, if you're feeling a bit.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm all over the show.
Speaker C:I'm not asking you about the aubergine.
Speaker C:Then we'll move on from that.
Speaker A:That one.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:We quite like the peach one as well.
Speaker A:Anyway, now, recently I came across an article that showed that Swindon has just done some art.
Speaker A:And I know you can't see me because we're on air, but this.
Speaker A:I've just done the curly things around that because is it art?
Speaker A:They have just painted some bollards as smoking cigarettes, and it's pretty horrific.
Speaker A:So my question is, is public art meant to challenge?
Speaker A:Is it meant to soothe or is it meant to entertain?
Speaker A:Am I taking this the wrong way, ladies?
Speaker C:Well, it's public, so it's got to be maybe a general consensus.
Speaker C:Would it be that it's going to be attractive to most people?
Speaker B:Well, then that'll be bland, won't it?
Speaker B:I mean, if everybody's got to sort of agree with it, then, you know.
Speaker B:So I. I would have liked Enter.
Speaker B:Well, you see, there you go.
Speaker B:Because you're dividing opinion already.
Speaker B:I'd quite like to entertain.
Speaker B:But then if you're thinking soothe or you're thinking challenge or you're thinking everybody's liked already, we're not going to have everybody liking it, are we?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker A:Now, the angel of the north, right from my neck of the woods, when that first came in, everybody hated it.
Speaker A:Now we all love it.
Speaker C:It's iconic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a statement piece.
Speaker B:So that was done in a very different way, wasn't it?
Speaker B:That was a statement piece.
Speaker B:That was putting it on the mark.
Speaker B:That was looking for commentary.
Speaker B:That was looking to raise awareness, wasn't it?
Speaker B:So maybe that's what it's more about, raising awareness.
Speaker B:And different people will read into it in different ways.
Speaker C:What do you think of them yourself?
Speaker A:Of angel of the North?
Speaker C:No, I just.
Speaker C:The cigarette.
Speaker A:The cigarette.
Speaker A:I can't bear it.
Speaker B:Have we got to the cigarette?
Speaker B:Have we got to the cigarette yet?
Speaker A:Well, that was my headline.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, no, it's.
Speaker B:No, but you have to explain which one it was that you.
Speaker B:You were, what, irritated by or like.
Speaker A:Swindon cigarette made me.
Speaker A:I don't know whether it's because I'm an ex smoker.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker A:But I find something about the cigarette with the fagash on.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's just repulsive.
Speaker A:I don't get it.
Speaker A:But maybe that is what art is about.
Speaker B:And what was it that there were bollards on a road and they thought, what, we need to decorate it.
Speaker B:I don't really know why it was concluded, because really, we all know what bollards look like and nobody's.
Speaker C:Boring, which.
Speaker B:Is the bland bit.
Speaker B:And everybody knows what it is.
Speaker B:It's important for you to know.
Speaker B:So when I saw these three cigarettes, I think it was.
Speaker B:Maybe there's more, but I thought it was.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:It sort of made me smile because I did think a bit Banksy.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They are sort of ugly.
Speaker B:They are.
Speaker B:I think they were trying to say, why are we.
Speaker B:I think it was also to say to these bollards, they're redundant.
Speaker B:We don't want them.
Speaker B:So I didn't know if the cigarette signified that as well.
Speaker B:Because it wasn't because they wanted the bollards.
Speaker C:Like a sign.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or can we not set.
Speaker B:You know, I don't mean that, but can we not get rid of them?
Speaker B:Because they would stamp them out.
Speaker B:Spit out Julie, rather than set in the bottle.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker C:Still hate them, but.
Speaker C:Yeah, just a thumped.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I don't know why it bothers me so much.
Speaker A:Now, now, Esther, this is why discussion is important.
Speaker A:The Banksy angle.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Actually, see, it's made me think differently about them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I think Banksy sort of makes you think, doesn't it?
Speaker B:It's funny.
Speaker B:It's quirky.
Speaker B:It sees things in a different way.
Speaker C:It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker C:So, you know, it doesn't have to make sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it's still making people notice.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker A:But I think, yeah, the Swindon cigarettes, I can take or leave the angel of the North I'm down for.
Speaker B:I mean, Banksy stuff.
Speaker B:Now, A is worth a few bar, but if anybody's got one, they're chiseling it off the wall, aren't they?
Speaker B:To find maybe they were hoping those three bollards would be dug out the road and.
Speaker B:And taken away from.
Speaker C:For the wrong reasons.
Speaker A:For the wrong reason.
Speaker C:For the wrong reasons.
Speaker A:And talking of art, now, you know, a bit left field here, but has anybody got a favourite piece of art?
Speaker C:Not an arty person.
Speaker C:Really like what you like.
Speaker C:If you see something, well, that's nice, that's amazing.
Speaker C:But no, personally not.
Speaker C:That is the beauty of art, which is subjective.
Speaker C:Subjective, correct.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker B:I liked when Liverpool was capital of culture, they created a piece called the Mona Lennon.
Speaker B:So it was the Mona Lisa, but it had John Lennon's face in.
Speaker B:And the art, it's amazing.
Speaker B:And the artist was fantastic, fabulous.
Speaker B:And he did things like that.
Speaker B:So the Three Graces, which was on the Waterfront, he then put in the Greek Three Graces for the buildings.
Speaker B:The Three Graces.
Speaker B:And he did brilliant artwork.
Speaker B:Now, I don't have the originals, but I bought limited prints off because to me it was thoughtful, it was entertaining, it was funny and maybe that's what I like in art.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Something that, you know, that just made me smile.
Speaker B:But Mona Lennon, it's called.
Speaker B:And there's.
Speaker B:I said various other ones.
Speaker A:How fascinating.
Speaker C:I've just thought of something.
Speaker C:The bees.
Speaker C:The Manchester bee.
Speaker C:Iconic.
Speaker C:So remember when the awful tragedy happened at the arena and then the Manchester bee became even more iconic?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:So it was in works of art, it was on walls, it was on paintings, it was on tattoos.
Speaker C:So probably that's gonna be my favourite.
Speaker A:Oh, I like that.
Speaker A:That's symbolism.
Speaker C:It's symbolism, isn't it?
Speaker C:It's like pride in your city.
Speaker C:And, you know, it did sort of.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And it was.
Speaker C:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it went back to the industrial age in Manchester.
Speaker C:Wasn't it the worker bee?
Speaker A:Yeah, the worker bees.
Speaker C:So it's always been busy bee.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's always been important, but that really sort of reinvented it, I think.
Speaker B:And there's pots of honey in Liverpool called Let It Be.
Speaker B:So which was your favorite piece of art?
Speaker A:Well, you know, again, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm not being very decisive today.
Speaker A:I've got two actually.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now, my, my.
Speaker A:My one I just love and I.
Speaker A:Lucky enough to see it in person.
Speaker A:When it was on tour, I saw David, Michelangelo's David.
Speaker A:So I really love school.
Speaker C:I thought you were going to say David.
Speaker C:Back him.
Speaker B:It's another work of art.
Speaker C:God, I've got loads of work of art.
Speaker B:I was going to say that.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's good on the eyes.
Speaker A:Easy on the eyes.
Speaker C:Easy on the eyes.
Speaker C:Sorry, Penny.
Speaker C:When he said David, I was like, oh, my God.
Speaker C:Yeah, he's another worker.
Speaker B:About our love.
Speaker B:Or were you thinking, obviously not of him, but his tattoos.
Speaker B:That's certainly a work of art.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:But anyway, but my other one, and this is weird because I don't eat meat.
Speaker A:I'm pescatarian.
Speaker A:But, you know, Damien, first, I didn't.
Speaker B:Know where this was going.
Speaker C:No, I was thinking emoji.
Speaker C:Maybe we should have flashcards.
Speaker A:Damien Hurst.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:The Golden Calf.
Speaker A:I don't know why, but I just found it so beautiful.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker A:I know, it's horrible, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, I tell you that we're finding out a lot about Penny here, aren't we?
Speaker B:The inner workings of Penny's mind and yours, Julie, Straight away.
Speaker B:David Beckham.
Speaker B:I know, I was there.
Speaker A:See, you were both there with that.
Speaker C:Can we do secret lights then next week?
Speaker C:Secret lights that other people.
Speaker B:Ours are so secret now, are they?
Speaker C:That's true.
Speaker A:I think the art thing, I think where we've come to with it is art is subjective.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And we've all got a different view on art, haven't we, and the importance of it and what it should invoke in.
Speaker A:In us.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:I like lots of color as well.
Speaker B:I. I just love vibrant, nice colors.
Speaker B:That is appealing to me.
Speaker B:I don't know, maybe wakes me up.
Speaker B:Adds color to the life.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:And again, I would say that is what art should be.
Speaker A:That you see something, you love it and.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Perks you up.
Speaker B:It's like music, isn't it?
Speaker C:Perks you up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And we don't all like the same music.
Speaker B:Pick me up, pick up, me up.
Speaker A:I think that's a rather lovely conclusion to the art.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The big debate, the prison reform.
Speaker A:Now, was it thumbs up or thumbs down?
Speaker A:Esther's favorite emoji is a thumbs up.
Speaker A:Where does she sit on this?
Speaker B:The prison reforms has just come through.
Speaker B:It's a big thumbs down, you know, and I'll explain.
Speaker B:The focus was just to have less people in prison, to reduce prison numbers, not whether it was working or not.
Speaker B:Not whether you need to do more rehabilitation when people are in prison.
Speaker B:And I get all that.
Speaker B:It was about reducing the numbers.
Speaker B:Well, I don't think that's your starting point.
Speaker B:Your starting point is how do you make sure that a. I mean, there's two things I think you've got to.
Speaker B:There's an element of punishment, removing people from society and there is rehabilitation.
Speaker B:So you've got to say, well, what isn't working and how do we craft it proper?
Speaker B:Our number one thing is to get a load of people out of prison and how do we do it?
Speaker B:And this is what we're going to do.
Speaker B:And therefore I felt they were looking at the problem down the wrong end.
Speaker B:Of the barrel.
Speaker B:And that is why I don't agree what the government is planning on doing.
Speaker A:Yes, I am in full agreement.
Speaker C:Yes, I'm in agreement with that.
Speaker C:Totally.
Speaker A:Again, I feel like the starting point is wrong.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:I feel like we do need more prison places, really.
Speaker A:I think a really quick win is to deport foreign.
Speaker C:Yes, absolutely agree.
Speaker A:I don't understand why that statement, of.
Speaker B:Which there are 10,000 out of the 88,000 prison population, that would make a.
Speaker C:Good percentage, isn't it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Cannot understand why that would be a remotely controversial statement.
Speaker B:We just deport them sometimes.
Speaker B:And sometimes they say, if that foreign criminal has perpetrated this crime and he's been given the sentence, you might want them to spend some of that time in prison that you know of for the victim of the crime.
Speaker B:Because what you don't want is them to be sent back, fundamentally released and then never spend any time in prison for that.
Speaker B:So that is why they've usually kept them.
Speaker B:So we get all that.
Speaker B:But fundamentally, you've got to understand why is prison there?
Speaker B:It is to remove the privileges of everyday free society from people who have harmed, hurt or done whatever.
Speaker B:And the other thing, it's not that easy to get into prison.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:It's not like your first offense and you're in.
Speaker B:Absolutely not.
Speaker B:My other half is an anorak and all of this.
Speaker B:And he does freedom of information requests for everything.
Speaker B:And it was shocking how many crimes you have to commit to actually get in prison if it's not filed.
Speaker B:One, I think he did.
Speaker B:The most he'd ever heard of was over 700 previous convictions to even get into prison.
Speaker B:So don't think it's easy to get into prison.
Speaker B:So if you're not putting them in and they've got community sentencing, et cetera, it's not working for.
Speaker B:Then they're not in prison.
Speaker B:Whereas I'd be a zero tolerance.
Speaker B:I look at some of these changes now.
Speaker B:What could they do?
Speaker B:Tagging they do rather than put people in prison?
Speaker B:I would say no, no, tag immediately.
Speaker B:So it's zero tolerance.
Speaker B:And then if you escalate up, this is what you're not.
Speaker B:You've already escalated up and we're going to put you back in the community or give you a tag.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Now, I was shocked that I saw one where he'd had 40 offenses then prison.
Speaker A:So here in 700, I'm not massively surprised, actually.
Speaker B:I mean, that was the maximum.
Speaker B:Maximum.
Speaker B:His question was, what was the maximum?
Speaker C:So it's the decision not to send Somebody, though, because there's no space to send them.
Speaker C:So would that person have gone to prison early?
Speaker B:This has gone for a long period of time.
Speaker B:They're not putting people in prison.
Speaker B:So the people who are in prison are probably the worst of the worst as it is, because you don't get there.
Speaker B:So you either build more prisons, which they should have done, but as I said, for a long period of time, we probably haven't done the rehabilitation in prison.
Speaker B:So that your excuse now is, oh, let's not put everybody in there.
Speaker B:No, it's to make sure it works.
Speaker B:Which will mean building more prison spaces.
Speaker C:Yeah, it would, absolutely.
Speaker C:And making sure whatever they get whilst they're in prison, like rehabilitation is working.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Not convinced.
Speaker C:That is.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker C:So that when they come out, they're not going to commit those crimes.
Speaker B:And I think, because they're too late, in my mind, going into prison, they're already hardened prison, you know, criminals.
Speaker B:And they've already thought, it is worth it.
Speaker B:They're not stupid.
Speaker B:They've done the sum, haven't they?
Speaker B:The analysis, is it worth it to have done that to get into prison or not?
Speaker C:100.
Speaker C:That's got to be.
Speaker A:Unless you send a tweet.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:I just wanted.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:No, no, you can put that.
Speaker B:Because, you see, there was.
Speaker B:And I was getting the figures.
Speaker B: ember, the government let out: Speaker B:Do you remember all of the celebration?
Speaker B:It was going to go up to 3,300, but at the same time, they also, because there was sort of, after Southport, lots of rioting, so they arrested 1,280 people and charged nearly 800 people.
Speaker B:So what was the point of taking.
Speaker C:All of those out?
Speaker B:Of taking all of those out to do this?
Speaker B:And this is then where you get the two tier justice, the two tier policing, the two tier sentencing, because you're letting people out.
Speaker B:Yet for others, which has seemed A tweet.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Lucy Connelly, you're talking about that.
Speaker B:We know it was a vile tweet, we know she did something wrong.
Speaker B:There probably absolutely was a price to play.
Speaker B:But it's totally disproportionate what she's doing, what they've done to her.
Speaker B:Totally disproportionately disrespectful.
Speaker A:When we've got Hugh Edwards and people like that not doing any time, we've got an MP who punched one of his constituents to the floor and didn't serve any time and then We've got a woman and mother who's got no previous convictions as a.
Speaker A:You know, conversely, that 700.
Speaker A:And she does, what, three years or 31 months?
Speaker A:31 months.
Speaker C:She's just had her appeal turned.
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:But it was sort of worse than that.
Speaker B:She should have had something called Rottle, sort of, you know, sort of.
Speaker B:You get time out.
Speaker B:And that should have started last November to see her child and a sick hus.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And that has been somehow not granted to her.
Speaker B:And people are saying, what are you doing?
Speaker B:There's an element now of sort of persecution of this woman.
Speaker B:And I think, how have the government and the legal system got themselves into such a pickle over this woman?
Speaker B:They need to step aside, step back and say, ooh, what are we doing here?
Speaker B:That's wrong.
Speaker B:This does not.
Speaker B:And that's why people are now saying, oh, is she a political prisoner?
Speaker A:I feel like she is now.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I get.
Speaker B:And by the way, this is true.
Speaker B:If there's ever rioting or civil disobedience, whoever is caught up with that, irrespective of the time, not just now, they will be made.
Speaker B:They will get steep sentencing.
Speaker B:There is an element of making an.
Speaker C:Example of people, an example of people.
Speaker B:Right, so that.
Speaker B:So that is what.
Speaker B:But even given that what's happening to this woman now is the strangest thing.
Speaker C:But what happened to freedom of speech?
Speaker C:Because, look, yes, she sent out a tweet that was, as we all agree here, she shouldn't have done it.
Speaker C:And she did apologize, she did take it down and she deleted it.
Speaker C:But are you not allowed to say some things without going to prison?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, we should be.
Speaker C:We should be allowed to.
Speaker B:And I think she was caught up in what had happened, what was happening.
Speaker B:And at that time, there was riots and she got caught up in that.
Speaker A:Yes, with her own.
Speaker A:Her own situation with her child and things.
Speaker A:There's so many.
Speaker C:It's like she got blamed for all the things that happened after Southport and.
Speaker A:There is no doubt that her tweet caused anything, because there's a really important line in her tweet that is, for all I care.
Speaker A:So it wasn't her saying you should.
Speaker C:Yes, she just said she did say that, for all I care.
Speaker A:And that's a really important part of it as well.
Speaker C:How often do you.
Speaker C:We all say things, maybe on a daily basis, that if you put that in a tweet, now you realise if you put that into it, my goodness me, could I end up in prison for saying something like that?
Speaker C:Which Is just an opinion, really.
Speaker B:It is an opinion and that's why it makes a mockery of all these new prison rules that are coming out.
Speaker B:Because it's saying sentencing less than a year should be ditched and some more suspended sentencing.
Speaker B:Release some prisoners earlier if they've done good behavior.
Speaker B:Well, there could be an argument for that if they argue about it, depending on the crime, the, you know, expanding community orders.
Speaker B:Well, let me tell you that if you haven't got it right in the community, you haven't got the support in the community.
Speaker B:That's not gonna work.
Speaker B:And tagging.
Speaker B:So this woman is still in prison for her tweet.
Speaker B:At the same time, they're saying let out thousands of people.
Speaker B:They're saying not bring in thousands of people for a whole host of issues.
Speaker B:Yet she's still there.
Speaker B:So it makes a mockery of all of that.
Speaker B:And as I said, that's where it's totally disproportionate.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:So I think we're all in agree agreement that Lucy Connolly shouldn't still be in prison at all.
Speaker A:And now to.
Speaker A:I think we all agree that sexual predators, people like that should be.
Speaker A:How do we feel about chemical castration?
Speaker A:So the government have suggested this.
Speaker A:It seems a very right wing.
Speaker A:That word gets bandied around as if it's a bad thing to be on the right of politics.
Speaker A:But we have right and we have left in this country.
Speaker A:They neither are right or wrong.
Speaker A:It's just the political side.
Speaker A:But actually.
Speaker B:But it's not right, is it?
Speaker B:It's left.
Speaker B:It's a left wing government.
Speaker B:So you call it far left.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So let's not.
Speaker A:Yeah, so this is actually a far left policy.
Speaker A:Do you think that it should be.
Speaker A:Should be done forced or voluntary?
Speaker C:Yes, I do.
Speaker C:Yes, I do.
Speaker C:I don't think there's any rehabilitation for somebody that's done the most heinous of crimes.
Speaker C:Without going into details again.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:People, humans of a sexual nature.
Speaker C:Yeah, Personally.
Speaker B:So I guess I thought there was a couple of things.
Speaker B:One, I didn't think the government were planning to this in a million years.
Speaker B:I think it was just some sort of a headline to sort of show we're being tough on crime and tough on, you know, all the causes of crime and all this.
Speaker B:So I felt they'd thrown that out.
Speaker B:And I think there's.
Speaker B:I also think policies.
Speaker B:Is it workable or is it not workable?
Speaker B:And therefore there would be an element of.
Speaker B:If it were voluntary done.
Speaker B:If somebody accepted to have chemical castration, it would work.
Speaker B:It's when somebody says no.
Speaker B:And then you've seen during the week, doctors have come out and said, we would not do that to somebody else.
Speaker B:We would not impose it on somebody else if they didn't want to do it.
Speaker B:Because there is meant to be autonomy of your body.
Speaker A:A chemical castration wouldn't be involved in.
Speaker B:And that's why I say they put this out there to the public, knowing it wasn't a workable solution.
Speaker B:So people say, I want to do it and I would.
Speaker B:And lots of people might say, yeah, but to force it on somebody, use.
Speaker C:It as a punishment, which it would be.
Speaker B:I think they'd have to really work out who was going to do it, how it was going to be.
Speaker B:And then the next thing, it's a continuous.
Speaker C:Like an ongoing process.
Speaker B:Ongoing process of taking chemicals, isn't it?
Speaker B:So what you don't want to do.
Speaker B:And then this is another question that comes forward.
Speaker B:People say, ah, you've let somebody out thinking they're on this course of chemicals.
Speaker B:What if they don't take it?
Speaker B:You've released them out into the public and you then think, this community safe, this person's taking these drugs and they're not.
Speaker B:That's making the community even more vulnerable.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So I think there's a lot.
Speaker B:So that's why I say workable, not workable.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think, like the tags.
Speaker A:I think we all assume that tagging gets done before the prisoner leaves the prison, but I think it was recently shown that it isn't.
Speaker A:And they have to have their tag put on.
Speaker A:And if they're never in, they never get the tag on.
Speaker A:I think it would be a similar situation with the chemical crust that you're relying on a third party to implement, or even the.
Speaker C:And if it's an ongoing process, you need to have the confidence that that's going.
Speaker C:That person is going to continue in it.
Speaker B:You know, what if you don't turn.
Speaker C:Up to have whatever it is, the rejection, or that, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:Or an appointment, a probation, you know.
Speaker B:So again, you've got somebody else making sure it happens, haven't you've?
Speaker B:Got to make sure it's enabled in one way or another.
Speaker B:So, again, workable, you know, and whilst it's not, you keep them in prison.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, they get a sentence that is suitable to the crime.
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It has to be appropriate for the crime, doesn't it?
Speaker A:It does have to be.
Speaker A:So I think we are all in agreement that the prison reform gets a big thumbs down.
Speaker C:Yeah, let's use Esther's favorite emoji emoji.
Speaker C:But the down, down one.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Sit down.
Speaker C:Sit down for me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Brilliant stuff.
Speaker A:So I think at the end of today's session, I feel that we have answered a lot of questions, but we have created more questions than we've answered.
Speaker C:We have, Penny, because now we, me, Nesta, have got to go away and do homework.
Speaker B:Well, also, I'm going to tell you, right.
Speaker B:I'm going to give a thumbs up emoji for today's show.
Speaker C:I'm doing my laughing face.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I'll do my little squiffy eyes and an aubergine.
Speaker C:Throw one in for good luck.
Speaker C:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Oh, and David Beckham.
Speaker C:Oh, can that be our final thought for the day, please?
Speaker A:David Beckham, final thought for Cheers.
Speaker C:David.
